Time Keeping

It's a tough thing to lay the pocket
down but it has to be done.

Sometimes these 16th-note patterns
don't have to be played entirely.
SOMETIMES. When they don't have to
be, the diddles can really help
shape the flow of your strokes.

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I know exactly what you mean Peter. I use diddles between hats and snare all the time to help keep the pluse even. It helps me a lot, especially on slower tunes.

Interesting point Steve about listening to the whole picture when you're playing as if you were simply jaming along to a cd. I try and do that and it does help. It is almost as if you are removing yourself from being a 'drummer' and listening to whats going on from a spectating point of view (if that makes any sense!. Also WATCHING a guitarist, bassist or keyboard player is a good one. You can see where they are placing their beats, not just hearing it.
ALWAYS have the subdivisions going through in your head, be it quavers, semi's or triplets. This, it goes without saying is vital and utterly necessary to have good time. Simply trying feel a quarter note is no good as there may be a lifetime between the beats. Feeling semiquavers (16ths) will give you a far better chance of holding it down.
There are also lots of different ways to work with a metronome that no one seems to mention, like playing it on all 4 quarter notes while playing a simple rock rhythm. Then try putting it on 2&4 with the backbeat, that should be harder to nail. Once you've played for a while with that, then have the click on the 1&3. This should feel very weird, as if it has become slower! Why not then have the click on all the 'ands' and try and keep in time with that? There's SO much more that we can do rather than just have it clanking on all 4 beats.
With regard to having a perfect meter and keeping solid time: One word........... CAMELEON!!
Does it stay in time... NO! Does it speed up like f*ck.... YES! Does it feel great.....YES!!

Good Example Dazzler. Now, is slowing down a bigger no-no and does it feel as good? I think slowing down is worse. Does anyone have an example of a tune that feels good slowing down?
Also, the comment about working for singers is absolutely true. I remember the first time I played with a professional singer and when the last head came in, she turned around and said " you rushed and now I can't sing it " DOH !

Nice post,Dazz. I think that using a metronome with just 1/4 notes is a sad waste,also. I think that a lot of younger players are "scared straight" with the idea that you have to have perfect time. Unfortunately,the result is scared and straight. What about feel? How many times is the drummer the scape goat for tempo changes. I think everyone should have good time. As long as it feels good,who cares? I think it's silly to think that anyone has PERFECT time. I know who I would list as damn close. I just always think of music as a continuous forward motion from beginning to end trying to make it flow as well as I can....

I think it's ok to ebb and flow the tempo but if you hear constant reminders that the tempo is getting weird I think it's cool to look into how to fix it . If it feels good skrew it but if it continues to get worse or too inconsistent then it's time to find ways to maintain it.
My problem is that I know in certain places in a tune I have a tendency to speed up so on the gig I'll compensate and pull back a lttle bit.
Now, when I listen back to that it feels like I'm dragging.

I'm going to listen to Steve's advice on playing with the band by listening to the whole picture.


The reason this is coming up is that I 've been listening to Vinnie and Gadd. I can listen to a whole live concert and never hear a discrepancy in time. The whole concert!
Namely the Soul Cages concert with Vinnie and almost every Gadd concert .
Gadd with Michael McDonald and Eric Clapton and friends. His time is sick on those. They both play a variety of grooves and dynamics too!
I'm kinda brainstorming now, but it seems like everyone trusts each other's time and that's what makes it sound so good in those concerts.

As far as staight ahead or jazz playing is concerned, in my experience other instrumentalists HATE it when a drummer drags and would always prefer them to be on top of the beat if anything.
I recently did a gig with a Rat Pack tribute big band and 3 guys playing Sammy, Dean and Frank. Now I've played these charts hundreds of times with different bands and know them fairly well. But for this gig, the MD frequently came away from the piano, standing directly in front of my kit to conduct. Wow, that's a totally different discipline altogeter - working with an MD. You think you've got the whole time issue under your belt until you have to interpret where a conductor is placing his downbeat, as well as having to nail all the rits and tempo changes at the drop of his hand.
I think that's a skill only the top drummers can master and feel comfortable with. It put a totally different spin on the gig and I felt more pressure playing those charts for that gig than ever before.

I've been trying the method Steve mentions for a while now and it really does help. It makes me play less and respect the space a lot more, thus (I think) improving my time. I've been doing it recently while recording some Christmas arrangements and listening back to the demos I'm actually happy with the time. The tunes are a little crazy with some modulation and time changes so we didn't use a click. Apart from the occasional rush and a slight increase in one of the tempos it turned out ok and still felt good. I'll probably put some clips on my site when the recording's done.
I think another important aspect of playing well with good time is being relaxed and breathing properly. Also, Billy Ward had some good advice on the MD 2000 dvd about videotaping yourself, noting where it feels really good, and learning how to access that state of mind all the time. He uses this idea a lot (mechanics?), utilising tools that help him get comfortable. For me, I can get into a zone here pretty quickly in my studio because there aren't any distractions, but on gigs it's a different story, so when I sit behind my kit with already half-drunk wedding guests everywhere, I'm trying to imagine myself in my studio in my little zone. This works for me and helps me focus on the overall sound.

Dazz, I understand what you mean when you talk about working with an MD. I'm playing in a 45-piece orchestra for a year now and I'm still not comfortable following the MD.

In our rehersals we sight read through about 10 arrangements, and the MD usually keeps 1 or 2 that sound good for the concert. Sight reading drum charts while following an MD is hard (at least for me right now). I'd need a 3rd eye (and sometimes a 3rd ear to be able to lock with that bass part played by a tuba or euphonium 40 feet away!). It's hard because you're not the master of time and dynamics, the MD is. You can't think in terms of metronomic time. Time becomes elastic, i see it like ocean waves. You have to nail backbeats with the MD body movement which may not be where you'd feel it. And 45 musicians can't play without flaming a bit. Plus nailing all those "poco rits", "meno mosso's", tempo and dynamic changes every couple of bars is not easy. I play classical percussion on some of the tunes and I find it easier because you don't play all the time and it' mostly for emphasizing and special effects (although counting those 103 bars before hitting this pppp triangle stroke takes concentration!!)

When I'm on drums it's mostly for Broadway type arrangements and there's lots of swing/big band type sections. Gee, those clasically trained musicians don't swing!. Each time, the MD has to explain how to swing the 8ths or dotted 8ths-sixteenths.

And the charts are so crammed with useless drum parts and fills. When you read them for the 1st time, it's hard to figure out what is a figure what is a fill. I find it easier to play in a big band with only the trumpet lead sheet. You're less contrived and more the band leader.

But I like the challenge and hopefully I'm developing new skills.

So to conclude, the concept of good time keeping is........a concept. Hard to grasp.

I have heard some big-band drummers
talk about how important it is to
think as horn-player would. If you
are with them, you're with it.

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